Dalek and Warcry's Endless Star Trek Thread

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Re: Dalek and Warcry's Endless Star Trek Thread

Post by Cyberstrike nTo » Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:09 pm

Scotimus Prime wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:15 pm
anyone watched the new Short Treks(Q&A, The Trouble With Edward) yet?

Yeah, so I finally bit the bullet and subscribed to CBS All Access and watched the second season of Discovery and it was much better than the first season even if the main arc felt like Star Trek: Discovery meets The Terminator and I do like the idea that season 3 will push the crew 930 years into the future so the show is no longer another damn prequel. Honestly why not do that from season 1 and save yourself a headaches.

I also felt season 2 was more relaxed and a was having more a little more fun the goofier aspects of season 1 and bringing Captain Pike as the Captain this season really fleshed out him a lot and made him a heroically tragic character since out of all the captains he's the least established. I do wished that they developed the character of Airrim more before killing her off that was my biggest problem with season 1 was characters like Airrim, Demeter (the girl with cybernetic eye patch) and Owo they were there and had interesting looks but were seldom if ever named and did anything outside of saying "Yes sir." in season 1. Then when they tried to build up sympathy for Airrim in the same episode where they were going to kill her off and make me care about her and have the crew say how wonderful she was, well I didn't see it or know her or anything about her to really give much of a damn outside well that sucks. This is IMHO is part of the small number of episodes of streaming shows like these has and even Star Trek: Short Treks which out of the first 4 only 1 had any really bearing on season 2 with Calypso feels like an interlude between seasons 2 and 3. The other two felt like just offbeat stories. The new one, The Trouble With Edward was OK and so was Q&A both trying to be very hard to be funny and cute. I will give The Trouble with Edward credit for making the Tribbles come off as a real threat and why the Klingon Empire had to finally wipe them out.

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Re: Dalek and Warcry's Endless Star Trek Thread

Post by Scotimus Prime » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:29 am


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Re: Dalek and Warcry's Endless Star Trek Thread

Post by Warcry » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:49 pm

Anyone else find that the sequestering of Discovery and Picard onto obscure subscription services has really killed your interest in it? If it was available on Netflix in Canada (as I understand it is in most of the rest of the non-US world?) I'd probably have watched all of Discovery and be very excited for Picard. but instead it's on some third-rate local streaming platform, and I find that I really don't care enough to bother. Out of sight, out of mind? I'm sure I'll catch it one day but I really feel zero motivation to tune in.

I have been watching TNG on Netflix, though. I guess they're streaming the HD remastered version of the show now, because damn, the Enterprise-D looks beautiful even in the mostly do-nothing effects shots of the first season. It's really amazing how much detail they put into the model, considering how blurry and grainy this all looked on TV in the 80s and 90s. I'm curious if I'll be able to tell the difference when they start using the less-detailed four-foot shooting model a couple seasons in.

Maybe it's the improved visuals or maybe it's just nostalgia (I haven't watched the bulk of TNG season one in probably fifteen years, since I jumped in somewhere in season two for my last watch six or seven years ago) but I'm enjoying the early episodes more than I expected. The tone is definitely bizarre considering what the show eventually became, some of the scripts are dreadful and most of the cast seem uncomfortable with their characters, but the episodes usually manage to be more than the sum of their mediocre parts. Even if just because they're accidentally hilarious. Having just watched Skin of Evil, I'm very curious how the show would have turned out if Denise Crosby had stayed. Tasha kinda sucked, but everyone kinda sucked in the first season, so I'm assuming she'd have improved as time went on. After all, even Troi managed not to suck sometimes in the last couple seasons.

My son has been watching with me (sometimes) and he's now borrowed a bunch of my old Playmates TNG toys. This weekend mostly consisted of him running around the house phasering everyone and scanning everything with a tricorder, swooshing the Generations Enterprise-D around and repeatedly beaming poor Barclay around in the transporter playset. He didn't understand why I found his choice of victim for the transporter so hilarious. I adored those toys when I was a kid and it really makes me happy to see them getting enjoyed again.

(And it reminds me that I really should track down replacement figures for all my well-used main characters, since the Playmates Trek stuff really isn't all that expensive nowadays. I keep saying that but I only got as far as replacing Geordi.)

He's also VERY insistent in reminding people that Picard has no hair, which reminds me that I thought Patrick Stewart was older than dirt when I first watched the show as a kid. I'm pretty sure that young me thought that he was 80 even though he didn't even turn fifty until half-way though the series.

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Re: Dalek and Warcry's Endless Star Trek Thread

Post by Denyer » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:00 pm

Warcry wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:49 pm
Anyone else find that the sequestering of Discovery and Picard onto obscure subscription services has really killed your interest in it?
Don't really keep up with any TV or films whilst they're "hot" for the most part. DVD or downloads long after the fact -- not much justifies buying on physical media or re-watching. Apart from forum and social media mentions, wouldn't know most of it exists. Do generally enjoy comedy panel shows, but following the fake vicar thing recently I wouldn't be upset if most of the BBC was cut.

Faced with massive fragmentation, it seems the main thing keeping the industries going is cheap CGI.

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Re: Dalek and Warcry's Endless Star Trek Thread

Post by inflatable dalek » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:55 pm

I think the Trek stuff has definitely done better on Netflix in the UK than it would have on a "Normal" channel. E4 have picked up repeat rights to Discovery and ask Supernatural fans how they feel about that station.

Love the trailer, love the feel and unlike m'learned friend Mr Denyer I think it looks a perfectly fine continuation of that era of Trek (which had changed pretty drastically between the start of TNG and the end of Voyager anyway, so I'm not sure why another 20 years wouldn't have brought as much of a stylistic change again as there's been in real life since then) and no darker than all those episodes and movies that showed our regulars were the only remotely competent and/or not evil Star Fleet officers.

Hell, one of the best episodes saw the Federation nearly succumb to full of fascism over the space of about a week before Picard gave a big speech.

I also like Riker and Troi being retired and happy. Much better than Trek's usual thing of "Everyone stays in the same place doing the same job with no character development till they die" thing that plagued the TNG movies. And bless him, Frakes is in no state to be convincing as a serving officer. Let him be old and fat with dignity.

Plus, as what seems to be in common with a lot of what we've seen, it's pretty in keeping with All Good Things take, where most of them had left Star Fleet (true, not Riker, but he had no happy married life there, instead he'd taken to dipping his head in talcum powder).

Not to bothered by the badly limited by the odd decision not to let them go past the destruction of Romulus so time has slowed to about 50 books being set in a week as it crawls closer books being ignored either. Though apparently the novel editors have hinted they're going to make them fit somehow...

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Re: Dalek and Warcry's Endless Star Trek Thread

Post by Warcry » Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:32 pm

Denyer wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:00 pm
Don't really keep up with any TV or films whilst they're "hot" for the most part. DVD or downloads long after the fact -- not much justifies buying on physical media or re-watching. Apart from forum and social media mentions, wouldn't know most of it exists.
I guess I'm the same way, really...the only thing I watch on live TV like in the old days is sports, and even then I'm streaming it. So I'm not really hearing about shows the way I used to (in commercials broadcast during the other stuff I watch). The last few shows I've really gotten into have been things I randomly heard about from someone online and figured it sounded cool. Heck, I only watched Stranger Things after I saw the nifty Lego set...
Denyer wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:00 pm
Do generally enjoy comedy panel shows, but following the fake vicar thing recently I wouldn't be upset if most of the BBC was cut.
They basically roped in an actor to go on TV and play a Conservative supporter because no one in the country was willing to admit they supported Teresa May, if I'm reading it right? Yeah, that's a bit of a scandal.

Makes me feel somewhat better about the CBC anchors openly cheering for our Liberals on the air during coverage of our last election. Though half of our Conservative party wants to defund the network, and a big chunk have embraced a Trumpian disdain for media in general, so I don't entirely blame them for being personally invested...
Denyer wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:00 pm
Faced with massive fragmentation, it seems the main thing keeping the industries going is cheap CGI.
Even that isn't going to be enough. With every network and content producer seemingly launching their own subscription service, all they're doing is ensuring fewer sets of eyes for their shows. Netflix obviously has deep roots, Amazon's bundled their service as a perk with something else people want, and Disney has so much content that they can probably pull it off. But smaller fish like CBS? I don't see how that's going to be sustainable.
inflatable dalek wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:55 pm
Love the trailer, love the feel and unlike m'learned friend Mr Denyer I think it looks a perfectly fine continuation of that era of Trek (which had changed pretty drastically between the start of TNG and the end of Voyager anyway, so I'm not sure why another 20 years wouldn't have brought as much of a stylistic change again as there's been in real life since then)
Well, I think the issue is probably that a lot of people don't want Trek to change. Or at least, not to change in the direction that some of the more recent stuff seems to be pushing it. The franchise has always had an optimistic slant that set it apart from it's contemporaries and it would be a shame for that to get lost in an ill thought out rush to "modernize" it for today's audience. Without that, all Star Trek has going for it is TOS and TNG nostalgia and those audiences have aged almost as much as the actors have.

(Sidenote: I'm really surprised that there hasn't been a more extensive push to capitalize on the popularity of TNG. It was so much more commercially successful in it's day than TOS was in its that there's not even a comparison to be had.)
inflatable dalek wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:55 pm
Hell, one of the best episodes saw the Federation nearly succumb to full of fascism over the space of about a week before Picard gave a big speech.
This happened often enough that I'm not even sure which episode you're referring to!
inflatable dalek wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:55 pm
I also like Riker and Troi being retired and happy. Much better than Trek's usual thing of "Everyone stays in the same place doing the same job with no character development till they die" thing that plagued the TNG movies. And bless him, Frakes is in no state to be convincing as a serving officer. Let him be old and fat with dignity.
This is something I definitely approve of, though! Let the characters move on in a way that the TOS cast (minus, eventually, Sulu) never could. The entire main cast is 60+ now. They certainly shouldn't still be puttering around aboard a starship.
inflatable dalek wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:55 pm
Not to bothered by the badly limited by the odd decision not to let them go past the destruction of Romulus so time has slowed to about 50 books being set in a week as it crawls closer books being ignored either. Though apparently the novel editors have hinted they're going to make them fit somehow...
I'm not at all bothered by the prospect of the novelverse getting reset either, though for the exact opposite reason. Over the last decade they've felt like a comic series from the 90s -- constantly skipping from big event to big event without any space in between to breathe, often with months- or years-long gaps in between in-universe appearances for some ships and crews. Having 25 different hero ships and random other main characters who've wandered off from the narrative certainly hasn't helped either, as realistic as it might be for the crews to break up, since they've got limited publishing slots every year.

Around Destiny the entire thing stopped feeling like a continuation of the shows (something that I think the early DS9 relaunch series did an amazing job of) and started to feel more like a continuation of the TNG movies, with each new event offering giant changes to a status quo that never had a chance to solidify.

OMG the President of the Federation is evil!

OMG the Romulans are having a civil war post-Nemesis!

OMG the Borg have come en masse to genocide everyone!

OMG the Borg killed Janeway in a TNG novel!

OMG now the Borg have gotten assimilated by space-hippies!

OMG it turns out that Section 31 killed the evil president after he was forced from office!

OMG all the bad guy races are mad at the Federation for making them fight the Borg, so they've formed their own Evil Federation with blackjack and hookers!

OMG now Janeway is alive again!

OMG Deep Space Nine blew up!

OMG the president has been assassinated again!

OMG the new president is evil.

...sigh.

And as some point in there Starfleet went insane, made Ro Laren a captain and put her in command of a major starbase (and left her in charge even after she got it nuked).

I'll still pick up the occasional thing that catches my eye, but the continuity as a whole lost me a while back. In print the franchise has gone away from the low-stakes space adventures that made up 90% of the TV episodes. I guess they figure that with so few "episodes" per year they need to make every one count? But honestly it just feels the opposite to me. I'd much rather read about a mystery or alien of the week than yet another multi-book "THE GALAXY WILL NEVER BE THE SAME" crossover. It's like if they were writing Law and Order books and every single case was someone has murdered the mayor...there's only so many times you can go to that well before it starts to feel routine.

Though that's probably not an entirely fair assessment, since I was far from a completist even when I was trying to keep up with a few series.

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Re: Dalek and Warcry's Endless Star Trek Thread

Post by Denyer » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:11 pm

I think the issue is probably that a lot of people don't want Trek to change. Or at least, not to change in the direction that some of the more recent stuff seems to be pushing it. The franchise has always had an optimistic slant that set it apart from it's contemporaries and it would be a shame for that to get lost in an ill thought out rush to "modernize" it
Yep. As you say, the novels often make similar poor judgements -- "Who's the Federation at war with now?" being chief among them. Titan, early New Frontier, DTI and what SCE stuff there is that doesn't lapse into tragedy porn upholds the tradition. Most other science fiction is dystopian, it isn't as if there's a shortage.

Not too fussed if that timeline wraps up, it's still been a good run. Far better in places than the source material. It's the same with Transformers; you want the voices, but a lot of the more interesting stuff is in print and doesn't have to deal with the constraints of TV or film production.

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