Watchmen: Movie thread [SPOILER TAGS?]

DrSpengler · Post by **DrSpengler** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:23 pm

I loved it.

Oddly, I think I loved it because I read the comic (isn't it usually the opposite with this sort of thing?). I knew how everything was going to play out, I already had a thorough understanding of the characters and the plot, and I was shocked and delighted that they managed to squeeze virtually EVERYTHING from the book into the movie (and the stuff they had to cut will likely be in the extended edition DVD).

If I disliked anything, it would have to be the fight choreography, which looked way too hokey; like you could tell they'd been practicing the moves all day. Some of of the CGI was a little underwhelming, particularly on Bubastis and the bit where Li'l Rorschach bites the kids cheek off. And the actors playing Nite Owl and Silk Spectre weren't so great.

On the bright side, Rorschach was absolutely spot-on. The guy playing him looked like he just stepped right off the page. I pretty much liked everybody else and had no other real qualms with the movie. I dug the altered ending, as I was never big on the squid anyway, and I understand why they cut out what they did (the Black Freighter, Rorschach's extended origin).

Now, like I said earlier, I enjoyed the movie because I'd read the comic. But after walking out, I thought to myself, would I have liked it if I knew nothing about it? People I've talked to who hadn't read the comic said they thought the movie was too hard to follow, that they didn't understand a lot of it. I kinda get what they're saying. I mean, for instance (as Dalek pointed out), there is no explanation whatsoever for Bubastis. He's just there. I mean, *I* knew who he was because I read the comic and didn't think twice about it, but everybody *else* in the theater were thinking "What the f***?"

I read some reviews in Time Magazine and Entertainment Weekly yesterday during some downtime at work, and both seemed to agree that the best part of the movie was the opening montage set to "The Times they are a-Changin'". That was a great way to start the movie, I have to admit.

Zeeks · Post by **Zeeks** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:19 pm

Clogs wrote: On Nixon's nose - I'm sure Getafix/Panoramix would have something to say about that nose. It was so very, very distractingly Cyrano de Bergerac, non?

In a disgustingly so way. Lessened the seriousness of being head of a nation.

DrSpengler wrote:the bit where Li'l Rorschach bites the kids cheek off.

CIGARETTE IN THE EYE! CIGARETTE IN THE EYE! No, that was a cute little Hannibal Lecter moment.

On the bright side, Rorschach was absolutely spot-on. The guy playing him looked like he just stepped right off the page.

I read an extended interview with Jackie Earle Haley about his preparation for the role in Wizard 208. Based on the end result, I think he was the true star of the entire thing, regardless of marketing for the film. Body Language, subtlety of movement, even the non-masked scenes.....yeah, he gets it.

People I've talked to who hadn't read the comic said they thought the movie was too hard to follow, that they didn't understand a lot of it. I kinda get what they're saying.

Here's the basic thing that I think most people faced in my position when I heard of this: "the Watch who?" For comic fans, they are aware of it. They know of Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons, they get it. Unfortunately, the world is not made up of comic book fans only. Specifically to me, yes I knew about it because of the peeps here. The general poplace doesn't. Not like Batman, which has been ironed into the very fabric of society and has totally gone beyond the medium of the comic.

I have a feeling this is the reason why the showing I went to was only 25% full. And this was on opening night at an early show.

Clogs · Post by **Clogs** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:01 pm

Zeeks wrote:I have a feeling this is the reason why the showing I went to was only 25% full. And this was on opening night at an early show.

Sunday morning showing at 10:20. About 20 people in there; saw only one other female, seated with boyfriend/brother. Wore my original Smiley badge and no one even seemed to notice. The place was so silent, either they were all riveted on the screen or stupefied, and they came out equally silent; suspect I was only fan there.

Zeeks · Post by **Zeeks** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:09 pm

Clogs wrote:Sunday morning showing at 10:20. About 20 people in there; saw only one other female, seated with boyfriend/brother. Wore my original Smiley badge and no one even seemed to notice. The place was so silent, either they were all riveted on the screen or stupefied, and they came out equally silent; suspect I was only fan there.

Oddly enough, when I was in a line of 20 or so people, I was listening to what movies were being seen. It was me, my date, and another couple that chose Watchmen. Everyone else was going to see Slumdog Millionaire.

I totally would have taken you, Clogs. You could go with your Smiley button, and I could go as Manhattan, complete with frontal nudity and Blue Skin.

It was funny to hear the crowd reaction everytime the blue penis made an appearance- lots of little giggles. There was more of a crowd reaction to that versus the love scene with Owl and Spectre.

Clogs · Post by **Clogs** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:49 pm

Zeeks wrote:I totally would have taken you, Clogs. You could go with your Smiley button, and I could go as Manhattan, complete with frontal nudity and Blue Skin.

Aw, thanks

I did say somepost else that I would have to view the good Doctor for myself and, frankly, didn't give a damn. He's blue and glowing, for goodness sake, and those pecs/shoulders commanded much more attention, but I will admit he had very nice gluteal muscles... Oh, Zeeks, could you measure up?

Slayer-Fan123 · Post by **Slayer-Fan123** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:12 pm

Zeeks wrote:Slumdog Millionaire.

You haven't felt real pain until you've seen that movie.

I quite enjoyed the movie. I loved the action scenes BECAUSE they were overdone. That is what I expect out of an action movie. Rorschach was perfect in the movie. My family enjoyed the endless paterns on his mask.
My only real complaint is that I had to explain every little thing my family didn't understand, which was about 93.45% of the movie.

RID Scourge · Post by **RID Scourge** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:15 am

DrSpengler wrote:Now, like I said earlier, I enjoyed the movie because I'd read the comic. But after walking out, I thought to myself, would I have liked it if I knew nothing about it? People I've talked to who hadn't read the comic said they thought the movie was too hard to follow, that they didn't understand a lot of it. I kinda get what they're saying. I mean, for instance (as Dalek pointed out), there is no explanation whatsoever for Bubastis. He's just there. I mean, *I* knew who he was because I read the comic and didn't think twice about it, but everybody *else* in the theater were thinking "What the f***?"

I went with my friend. She didn't read it first, but she was able to follow it. She thought it was all right. Just a little long for her tastes.

I had a damn good time, but I was feeling a little uncomfortable being in the seat for that long.

Poor girl. I was totally geeking out on her like "In the comic they did this," and "I actually did like this change here." I really enjoyed talking about it. She didn't mind though.

I read some reviews in Time Magazine and Entertainment Weekly yesterday during some downtime at work, and both seemed to agree that the best part of the movie was the opening montage set to "The Times they are a-Changin'". That was a great way to start the movie, I have to admit.

Yeah. One of the guys I work with said that was his favorite scene, too. It was extremely well-done, and I've had the song stuck in my head since watching the movie.

CounterPunch · Post by **CounterPunch** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:14 am

DrSpengler wrote: I mean, for instance (as Dalek pointed out), there is no explanation whatsoever for Bubastis. He's just there. I mean, *I* knew who he was because I read the comic and didn't think twice about it, but everybody *else* in the theater were thinking "What the f***?"

Same here, I had to explain Bubastis to 5 or 6 people, and that had they not changed the ending it would have made sense, but they did, and then Bubastis became redundant to the plot and just ended up as a bit of fan wank.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:20 am

The annoying thing is that even if there was a explanation that got cut they could still have covered it with one line in ADR (hell, Rorsarch is perfect for that sort of thing. They could have explained his mask at the same time, the impression the film gives is that he actually does have some sort of real super power because he can do that with his face).

Blitzwing · Post by **Blitzwing** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:43 pm

Didn't realise there was a thread in general, so I'll copy and paste mine frome Animation/Comics:

I read the graphic novel just a week before the movie came out, thought it was outstanding. I've seen the movie twice now, and loved it equally both viewings.

I loved how they did the opening montage with the Bob Dylan song in the background. They were able to cover so much back story in just that one little bit. I didn't mind Nixon's nose... I thought it was appropriately 'cartoonish' looking. Also glad that they didn't shy away from Manhattan's lack of clothing.

Rorschach was my favorite character in the novel, and I'm so glad they kept all his badass characteristics intact for the movie. The scenes with him in jail were some of my favorite in the whole film, especially the "You're locked in here with me!" part.

The audiences change in reactions during some scenes were pretty interesting. The scene in 'Nam when Comedian was telling the pregnant women to f-off had some people laughing at first, but nobody was laughing after what happened.

I can understand why they took the Black Freighter stuff out, but it would have been nice to have some scenes that featured the characters around the news stand because they did bring a good feel to how people were reacting differently to what was going on at the time. Also thought they should have kept Hollis' death in the movie, but I guess they were way over their expected time already.

I went the first time with my gf who had read the graphic novel, she thought that they should have kept the squid, but I was happy with the Manhattan ending. Went the second time with friends who hadn't read the novel, and they said they loved it and had no problems following it.

All in all a great movie, and I can't wait for the cut scenes when the DVD comes out.

Sir Auros · Post by **Sir Auros** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:30 am

Only seen it once so far (have to drive 45+ minutes to go to a good movie theater), but I seem to remember something in my first viewing that alluded to Hollis' death. Can't remember exactly what it was, though.

Blitzwing · Post by **Blitzwing** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:09 pm

The scene where Night Owl and Rorschach were interogating the guy in the bar had a shot of Night Owl turning to face one of the other patrons, but then it quickly cuts to Rorschach and the guy who new about Pyramid. I think the other patron was going to tell him that the knot-tops had killed Hollis, which leads me to believe that they did film his death, but it was cut to save time.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:17 pm

Am I the only one not seeing the point in going to watch this thing? The comic (it's not a graphic novel, or a novel, it's 12 comics in a trade - heads out of bums, people, we're not reporting this for the Guardian) is superb, doesn't miss bits out, fully rounds out the characters, vastly expands the cast and doesn't have a fiddled about ending. Any particular reason I need to see the thing filtered through other people's interpretations into a media it wasn't designed for? I've never really seen the point (from a consuming point of view; I can see why it's good for producers) of adapting a particular comic storyline - at best, it's going to end up exactly like the comic, but with things moving and less reading to do. Or basically borrow the name and a few ideas and do what it likes with it (300, for instance).

I get it a bit more when they take characters - the Marvel films or Batman take the rough character and a few plot ideas, but basically do their own stories. Or even Akira, probably the very best example. But Watchmen? V for Vendetta? What exactly is the point?

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:23 pm

Cliffjumper wrote:Any particular reason I need to see the thing filtered through other people's interpretations into a media it wasn't designed for?

Not really.

I saw it mostly from a curiosity standpoint. A case of "interested in exactly how good/bad a job has been done of it."

Unsure I'd ever watch it again, tbh. I probably only understood the film because I've read the source. And if I want to go over the story again, well I've already got the book.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:36 pm

I sort-of see it with books, because there aren't any 'set' visuals (most people come up with them in their head, I believe), so there's the scope to interpret it into a visual media without the job having already been done (plus books have a tendancy to have a decent story sidetracked by a writer's lack of style - Tolkien is a prime example, LotR being much more interesting with his various detours into nerdish wittering and/or racism ignored), but with comics? The story's already there, and so are the visuals. What's the point of adding audio and movement, especially when doing both is highly likely to compromise the thing (for example, comic books don't have a special effects budget, and up until five years ago people in comics weren't based exclusively on photo referencing of famous actors and thus tend not to look like real people anyway) through a bad casting decision (Sean Connery phoning it in, for example), inept directors (comedy ninja V) or just having to slice so much of it out to fit the format you wonder why they bothered (From Hell).

Blitzwing · Post by **Blitzwing** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:10 pm

I think that as much as most of us all here love comics, the general population doesn't really follow them. I'm the only one out of all of my friends who actually buys them. So when you take a great comic like Watchmen and make it into a movie, then you get a lot more exposure for the story and the characters. Now I can actually have conversations with my friends about it, which would have never happened if the movie was never made.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:15 pm

I'd say it's a good enough film in its own right to deserve to exsist, the visuals alone make it well worth seeing on a big screen (though on the TV it's going to lose a lot).

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:28 am

inflatable dalek wrote:(though on the TV it's going to lose a lot).

But at the same time will gain a lot of extra footage.

To amend what I said earlier slightly, I probably would watch it again if it were the extended version. Solely to see how much of a bloated incoherent mess it becomes once Black Freighter is incorporated.

Might have been a better idea all round to have come up with a story "from the files of Police Squad Watchmen" and just have Hollis and Captain Metropolis beating up crims. Blah blah yadda yadda ignore me.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:34 am

Apparently it's pretty much tanking (or at least not doing as well as the huge budget requires) so I guess most people are with cliffy on this one.

I wonder if (one of) the things that's putting people off is a perception the Black Frieghter DVD is supposed to be a big part of the films backstory and they can't be arsed to buy it seperately?

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:40 am

I know several people who've responded to the trailers with "hang on, if this is the most celebrated graphic novel of all time... how come I've never heard of it?"

I can seldom be arsed to spend quarter of an hour explaining that it's because it's a one-story thing rather than a multi-decade brand, and that there's never been any merchandising before now due to the creator getting his knickers in a twist over a badge set.

Seriously, if there'd been Watchmen t-shirts available for the past twenty years, people would have been aware of it.

Also: I've seen quite a lot of reaction from people less than impressed by the fact they thought they were getting an action-packed superhero movie, but ended up sitting through nearly three hours of angst and slow-mo, having been brought into the story at about the middle of it with no real idea what was going on. Word of mouth is a powerful thing. Especially when you're up against The Rock in a Disney film.