Veganism

[verytired]

Hello all,

I was wondering what everyones views on Veganism was here? I have been Vegan for about a year, and have come across lots of different reactions from people I meet day to day: are there any other Vegans on the boards here as well?

PS I'm not recruiting. I got kicked out of the militant Vegan club for being too laid back: I am genuinely just enquiring after peoples opinions

[inflatable dalek]

I've a friend who'se vegan and I'm not entirely sure what the benefits are when she seems to be always having to take supplement and never have any energy, but ultimately it's down to the individual.

Personally, we're omnivorous animals so I've no problem with chowing down on meat no matter how cute it was when it's alive. If there's one thing that Disney has taught us, it's the circle of life.

[Hound]

I'm not vegan and have no inclination to ever be.

I've no opinion on whether or not anyone else should be.

[Denyer]

Have always fancied a stint in an abattoir, which I don't think would put me off meat.

[verytired]

I've a friend who'se vegan and I'm not entirely sure what the benefits are when she seems to be always having to take supplement and never have any energy,

Sadly, pretty bloody common problem with a lot of Vegans. It hasn't affected me all that much, other than producing some blistering flatulence at times. Makes meetings and schooll assemblies so much fun!

[Lady Quickswitch]

I wanted to ask you about this very topic. I'm not a vegan, but a friend of mine is a vegetarian (not vegan though) who eats a lot of Indian and Japanese food and doesn't seem to suffer energy problems or need supplements.

I like eating meat. I don't eat very much of it just by taste, not any personal conviction. Factory farming disgusts me and I wish actual healthy meat was available more often.
Game meat tastes great. Nothing wrong with hunting for food!

[Shrapnel Clone]

Don't like it, myself. I'm a part-time vegetarian myself (I love meat, but eat none two days a week), but would certainly eat dairy products if I could, do eat honey sometimes, and I wouldn't know how many other animalbased things. I don't see why we shouldn't use silk, either. I like my wool blankets.

I understand why leather, fur, etc. are wrong, but I think using things like wool aren't harmful, right?

[inflatable dalek]

I understand why leather, fur, etc. are wrong, but I think using things like wool aren't harmful, right?

I'd guess (without being in any way an expert) it's that fleecing a sheep doesn't kill it.

I do enjoy bantering with my vegan friend though, when she starts talking about the suffering cows suffer from when being milked by huge evil machines I'll usually ask her how she knows they're not into BDSM. Makes the hours at work fly past so fast they feel like hours.

[verytired]

I wanted to ask you about this very topic. I'm not a vegan, but a friend of mine is a vegetarian (not vegan though) who eats a lot of Indian and Japanese food and doesn't seem to suffer energy problems or need supplements.

In my opinion, you shouldn't need supplements apart from B12, and I'm too lazy to even buy that.

As for wool and silk: it aint so much the product, more the method of keeping the animals on farms in the first instance that I dislike.

[Warcry]

I was wondering what everyones views on Veganism was here?

In theory, if you can get all the nutrients you need without eating meat I don't see what the problem is. Most of the vegetarians or vegans that I've met are in the "it's wrong to eat fuzzy aminals!" camp, though, and make the decision for moral reasons without learning how to keep themselves healthy on an alternative diet. They treat it like a fad and end up doing serious harm to their own health, and then either give up on it entirely or start taking a handful of nutritional supplements with every meal to provide the iron and such they're not getting from their food.

I've seen that so often now that I tend to be very critical of the idea in practice.

[Denyer]

more the method of keeping the animals on farms in the first instance that I dislike.

Assuming no farms, do you think we should pro-actively be creating wild reserves or let the various species (most of which no longer have a place in the wider ecosystem) die out?

[verytired]

Assuming no farms, do you think we should pro-actively be creating wild reserves or let the various species (most of which no longer have a place in the wider ecosystem) die out?

That's actually a tough one: I tend to err on letting the things die out really, although I am in the minority on that one. As you say, they no longer have a place in the ecosystem. But then again, there's a knock on affect to letting them roam free: if they did start dying out, then there would be a lot of corpses rotting in the sun before too long, and that can't be good! On the opposite end of the scale, they could overbreed- again, probably leading to their demise, but with the added negative affect of their being even more of them.

Hmm: Wild reserves for 'stock' animals. It may be the best way, even though it is opposed to my basic belief of all things being free.

[Rurudyne]

I'd guess (without being in any way an expert) it's that fleecing a sheep doesn't kill it.

I do enjoy bantering with my vegan friend though, when she starts talking about the suffering cows suffer from when being milked by huge evil machines I'll usually ask her how she knows they're not into BDSM. Makes the hours at work fly past so fast they feel like hours.

Better than my approach.

Years ago ("when G1 was the only Transformers") at college a couple of girls noticed me going back for seconds of "veal" in the lunch line and afterward they cornered me quite sure that I was ignorant of the horrors of veal.

I was, and maybe this needs mentioning, already in a very foul mood for other reasons ... not a valid excuse, mind you....

"The beast's suffering enhanced my pleasure at eating its flesh." was my irritated retort I gave the horrified ladies.

Like I said, I could have and should have handled that better....

[Sades]

I was the "OHNOES fuzzy animals" type Vegan back when I was in my early 20's. It was too hardcore for me (veganism that is) so I switched to ovo-lacto Vegetarianism/Pescetarianism and stayed that way for most of my 20's.

I found that people got a touch defensive when they found out I was a Vegan/Vegetarian, like I was going to tell them they were doing it wrong. Either that or they liked to try and argue with me about it, which didn't bother me then... but looking back now, I'm actually kind of pissed off. I think if I still were Vegan/Vegetarian now, I'd be less inclined to try and defend it and more inclined to just point out that I don't give a **** what other people eat and leave the matter at that.

That's... pretty much my views on it. I do however reserve the right to laugh my ass off at people who claim to be Vegans and then eat regular breads and Jell-o and such. I'm still an asshole, after all.

[Cyberman]

Personal opinion ahead:
In my limited on-line experience, most vegans are simply nuts.
Many vegetarians too, but while I can accept that someone wants to be a vegetarian (i.e. ovo-lacto), I think being vegan is stupid.
(Although, being omnivorous doean't necessarily mean being smart either.)

Of course, in the end, it doesn't matter what I or anyone thinks. If you feel fine that way, go ahead.

You're obviously one of the sensible ones, anyway.

I got kicked out of the militant Vegan club for being too laid back

What bothers me are those vegans (and vegetarians) that claim that humans are not meant to eat meat and that our intestines are too long for it and all that stuff.

While I certainly agree that most of us eat too much meat (myself included), I don't think humans can really survive being vegan - unless they are VERY careful about what they eat.
The human body is remarkably resilient, it can endure a lot of punishment, but I'm convinced that "traditional" food (i.e. omnivorous) is better suited for us than vegetarian/vegan - the latter being the real problem.

Too much essential stuff is almost only found in animals, many vitamins and several minerals.
Plants may contain some as well, and much is produced by bacteria anyway, so there is away around it, of course.

To eat sensibly, you need to pay much attention and know what all the foodstuff really is and means.
To eat sensibly as a vegetarian/vegan, you better study as a dietician for a few years first, so you know what non-animal products can offer the required amount of vitamins/minerals.

The latter would be by far too much work for me (I'm lazy) and I seriously doubt that even 1 out of 10 vegetarians (or 1 out of 100 vegans) actually realize this.

----

Of course, I'm not a dietician and this is merely my wikipedia/internet-formed opinion. Maybe I'm wrong, it's not like this is a topic where scientists could ever agree to anything. (Beyond "Eating good. Not eating bad.")

[Osku]

I tip my hat off assuming
1) one makes the necessary thorough chances for one's diet
2) is prepared for the mental pressure from people around him/her
3) still manages to go through it without terrorising people around him/her

I've known and still know few such people.

On the other hand starting and vocal vegans pissed me off when I was younger. Most people most likely are only familiar with the latter type.

Myself have been lacto-ovo vegetarian for about 15 years and from my personal experience those with burning conviction tend to... burn out and return to "normal" diet" and less vocal tend to make the new diet a more natural part of one's every day life.

ps. very tired: Please, take care of your B12 vitamin need if you plan to continue your diet. Depending on your diet and living habits iron supplements may come handy later on. As an active blood donator I'd propably have an anemia by now.

[verytired]

ps. very tired: Please, take care of your B12 vitamin need if you plan to continue your diet. Depending on your diet and living habits iron supplements may come handy later on. As an active blood donator I'd propably have an anemia by now.

If it makes you feel any better, they haven't rejected my blood at the donation station

What bothers me are those vegans (and vegetarians) that claim that humans are not meant to eat meat and that our intestines are too long for it and all that stuff.

That's a very odd claim, one I am glad to have never come across in any vegan academy meetings: we're plainly Omnivorous, from teeth to intestines. It is a purely moral stance in my case: We don't need to eat the animals anymore, and the factory farming techniques are becoming barbaric / frightening.

[Denyer]

factory farming techniques are becoming barbaric / frightening.

True. We "need" far less meat than most people ingest and it's better to have quality and humanely farmed animals than stuff pumped full of drugs and water and/or shipped from the other side of the world.

There are similar problems with supply chains for consumer goods. It's difficult if not impossible to avoid goods involving exploitation and corner cutting, with household firms using the same production bases as pound shop fare even whilst corporate PR has become heavily focused towards proclaiming ethical practices.

[Osku]

If it makes you feel any better, they haven't rejected my blood at the donation station

Well, it shows you care about other people and have paid attention to your hemoglobin, so in a way yes. I didn't mean to sound patronizing, sorry if it sounded like that. My English is a bit rusty, having trouble with nuances.

Maybe I read too much into your "In my opinion, you shouldn't need supplements apart from B12, and I'm too lazy to even buy that." comment, as I used to think "all supplements = useless".

My opinion slightly changed when despite a healthy diet I couldn't get what I needed without iron supplement.

My hemoglobin value had stayed steady when it suddenly dropped from usual ~165 to ~140. What I hadn't paid attention was that when donating regularly and often for years, it's highly propable body's iron "deeper reserves" can't keep up. Happens also with omnivorian diet, but with vegan/vegetarian diet filling the reserves is more demanding.

Really took a toll on my stamina and recovering took some time -> wouldn't want others to experience same.

[verytired]

Well, it shows you care about other people and have paid attention to your hemoglobin, so in a way yes. I didn't mean to sound patronizing, sorry if it sounded like that. My English is a bit rusty, having trouble with nuances.

You weren't being patronising at all, I think I made a mistake in the tone of my reply