Doctor Who: Time Crash, Voyage of the Damned and Season 4 Discussion

Lambda prime · Post by **Lambda prime** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:13 pm

That severed hand may have a bearing on this regeneration. Maybe the doctor will split in two. Just learned, next weeks is twenty minutes longer.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:17 pm

Halfshell wrote: Would have preferred if it had been less of an RTD love in. "Everyone except Rose?" Feck off. But, oh no, the series didn't exist before Ecclescake did it? Can't be confusing the punters. Ace to save the day.

Sarah Jane predates Eccleston donchaknow

.

And the over-scene-one cast list that gave away Penelope's involvement.

Missed that, have I missed it every week or was this the first to have American style guest credits?

Who's the kid?

Sarah's adopted son, he's a clone created by Miss Monneypenny as a acumilation of human physical and mental perfection. I was under the impression Mr. Smith turned out to be a evil Kroton crytsal alien in the last SJA, I guess she must have fixed him.

Cliffjumper wrote: Glad to see they found time for all those guest stars, though. I was a bit afraid Martha would stand around doing ****-all and the Torchwood team who weren't Jack would end up with interchangable dialogue any sack of skin could have had.

Well, ignoring the fact they've still got another week to do all sorts of stuff, I thought they did pretty well actually. Only one who could easily have been got rid of was Josh.

Nice that the writer didn't paint himself into a corner and have to rely on a character like an ex-Prime Minister coming up with a system she'd have no means to develop and a questionable amount of desire to do so as well.

Jones didn't develop the system.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:18 pm

Ah, the return of the Anglo. I'd be down but have zero money.

inflatable dalek wrote:I'm actually surprised Dalek guns don't stop regeneration, no wonder they lost the Time War.

Twas only a glancing blow. Barely a flesh wound.

We know they'll cop out anyway - it's Tennant's Doctor that River has a fling with in the future, after all.

I bet the Medusa Cascade being a second out of synch will help with the big fix. And that's still an absolutely senseless plot device, no matter what context it's used in.

Maybe Super Rose fixed it all whilst she could see all time and space! Yeah, that'll be it.

Any ideas on what's causing the walls between universes to break down, incidentally? Or are we just meant to take it as a side effect of Davros whacking 20-odd planets next to each other? Or is that what the intent is? Or are we meant to not question it?

Actually, the Ood will probably team up with Jenny Who to save the day. They're about the only plot elements not yet dragged into things from this season.

And Donna's going to die. Yes. We get it. Stop already.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:19 pm

Ha, you guys are bigger ****ing nerds than me, a guy who compiles checklists on toylines no-one gives a **** about. Looo-sers.

inflatable dalek wrote:I'm actually surprised Dalek guns don't stop regeneration, no wonder they lost the Time War.

To be fair, I did get the impression he was winged rather than hit - the blast carried on past. And if I'm right, it seemed to go through a heart - there's your get-out clause. "Nuuuuuuw... Two hearts for a Timelord, partial regeneration... if i did a full regeneration every time I got a nick... Buuuh-rilllyyyyunt! Oh, I'm so, so, sorry"

Jetfire wrote:And doesn't he normally avoid the Doctor's attentions where possible since Genesis of the Daleks?

I think you'll find Genesis of the Daleks happened before Russell T. Davies started writing for the show, and now officially no longer exists.

Halfshell wrote:At least there was no attempt to squeeze Mickey into the mix as well.

Isn't Noel Clarke in a proper film now, though? Doubt he was champing at the bit to become "comedy black patsy" all over again...

But, oh no, the series didn't exist before Ecclescake did it?

We've established this, haven't we? My boxed set I got from the offers shelf next to Lost and Six Feet Under at HMV says Series 1 on it.

Still one of the better episodes this year.

I agree. This was only crap.

Who's the kid?

Some guy off one of the spin-off series. Not entirely sure, there's about sixty of them. They usually show on BBC Who 24. Either that or pop down TRU, there's probably a few action figures of him out.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:22 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:Jones didn't develop the system.

No, it was done by some trust or other that was half-explained, but will almost certainly get fully covered next week. They'll explain why they had a disgraced Prime Minister who resigned through stress/stupidity on board. I'm just glad we didn't have the same old joke again, though, the one where she brandishes her ID and tells everyone who she is even though they already know - if the Daleks had done the "Yes, we know" riposte that would have been really terrible.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:24 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:Sarah Jane predates Eccleston donchaknow .

So do the Daleks, what's your point? Ace should still be about, and is pretty much what Rose is to Martha... but we don't want to risk confusing people by throwing in too many characters now do we?

Missed that, have I missed it every week or was this the first to have American style guest credits?

Just this week. No clue why.

Jones didn't develop the system.

Who or what the **** is the Mr Copper Foundation?

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:26 pm

That was a one off. I'm sure before and after he's either ignored him or actually hidden away in disguise.

I think he was more normally hiding from both the Earth authorities he escaped from (and being held prisoner by humans for 90 years gives him added reason to be pissed off with them) and his original Daleks.

Actually, from the "I tried to save you" line are we meant to infer Davros fought with the Timelords? It would actually make sense considering his antagonistic relationship with the original Daleks but seems a bit odd...

Halfshell wrote: We know they'll cop out anyway - it's Tennant's Doctor that River has a fling with in the future, after all.

I still haven't seen part two, but is it catagorically the same Doctor she flang with? Not a case of her being one of those people who can recognise different regenerations because they know him so well (as the Brig was doing by the end), or even just her having seen a pic of his earlier self? Because even if he still is the lead next week I can't see Tennant staying round long enough to tie in with her claiming in part one she'd never seen him so young.

I bet the Medusa Cascade being a second out of synch will help with the big fix. And that's still an absolutely senseless plot device, no matter what context it's used in.

I'm more worried about RTD stealing from the Beast Wars comic. Can Furman sue?

Maybe Super Rose fixed it all whilst she could see all time and space! Yeah, that'll be it.

Any ideas on what's causing the walls between universes to break down, incidentally? Or are we just meant to take it as a side effect of Davros whacking 20-odd planets next to each other? Or is that what the intent is? Or are we meant to not question it?

The other species that once moved the Earth perhaps? Considering the form of these cliffhangers (Daleks didn't know what Bad Wolf meant, Cybermen didn't know what the sphere was, the Master didn't know what Martha's gun really did) I'm betting they'll be a scene next week where the Doctor asks Davros about the collapsing universes and it turns out not to be him...

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:27 pm

Halfshell wrote:Just this week. No clue why.

Mmm, I could have understood if they'd done it for Captain Jack, Sarah Jane, Martha the Friendly Alien Slayer (she basically is Doctor Who's answer to Kendra, isn't she?) and those two other people from Torchwood... quite why they needed to blow Wilton being in it I don't know. Maybe they thought some arsehole had been going around the internet openly posting spoilers and they'd get in on it as well?

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:32 pm

Halfshell wrote:So do the Daleks, what's your point? Ace should still be about, and is pretty much what Rose is to Martha... but we don't want to risk confusing people by throwing in too many characters now do we?

If we go with the spin offs Ace is either dead, or a futuristic planet hoping Dalek fighter (and so therefore probably was killed in the Time War anyway).

Who or what the **** is the Mr Copper Foundation?

Copper was the name of the bloke played by Mr. Bucket in Voyage of the Dammed wasn't it?

And even forced out PM's can still have power and influence (vis Maggie Thatcher still managing to scare the crap out of the Tories despite slowly turning into a Davros lookalike, not to mention the House of Lords).

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:32 pm

There's something inside that Supreme Dalek as well, isn't there? A lot of emphasis on opening catches on the case design. So, are we thinking all of the Timelords quashed up really small? The Master? Jenny Who? Mickey? Cakebastard?

inflatable dalek wrote:Actually, from the "I tried to save you" line are we meant to infer Davros fought with the Timelords? It would actually make sense considering his antagonistic relationship with the original Daleks but seems a bit odd...

I took it more as the Doctor trying to save him in the same way he tried to save the Master or something.

Re: River Song, while I don't for a second think we're going to have a new 'proper' Doctor (maybe they'll have him regenerate into Johnny Vegas or Pete Docherty for some forthcoming charity skit?), the parallel world thing means that all bets are off.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:35 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:And even forced out PM's can still have power and influence (vis Maggie Thatcher still managing to scare the crap out of the Tories despite slowly turning into a Davros lookalike, not to mention the House of Lords).

That's because Maggie Thatcher was ****ing terrifying. Harriet Jones wasn't. Maggie Thatcher largely agitated her old party to very little effect. Harriet Jones got somehow involved in a multi-million project to make a space radio. Maggie Thatcher was forced out by her own party. Harriet Jones appeared to have a nervous breakdown. Slight contrast there.

It was a massive, massive plot contrivance, and it stank to high heaven.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:35 pm

Cliffjumper wrote:Mmm, I could have understood if they'd done it for Captain Jack, Sarah Jane, Martha the Friendly Alien Slayer (she basically is Doctor Who's answer to Kendra, isn't she?) and those two other people from Torchwood... quite why they needed to blow Wilton being in it I don't know.

The first three of those made it into the opening credits anyway. Gwen and Ianto could have waited till the end... bigger name guest stars have done.

And I just had the notion of them killing off Martha and replacing her with Eliza Dushku. God that's an awesome thought. Maybe that's who Tennant's going to regenerate into? Eliza as the Doctor. I'd watch that. Maybe nobody'll watch Dollhouse so we can run with that next year...

Maybe they thought some arsehole had been going around the internet openly posting spoilers and they'd get in on it as well?

Sad thing is, despite knowing Davros was going to be in it, I didn't actually get spoiled by Heinrad's earlier post. That's due to my lack of familiarity with certain past Who aspects. I was, however, fuming when I saw next week's Radio Times yesterday with its cover story (fortunately pic-less) of "Davros is back!".

****ers.

Where was K-9 anyway?

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:37 pm

Mmm, problem is some of us have the unfortunate stigma of remembering stuff like that, and it's not like the spoiler tags are difficult to remember or anything. It'd have been a Macra moment for me, I'd have been grinning like a twat at that one. As it was, I was kind-of "Oh, Davros."

inflatable dalek wrote:If we go with the spin offs Ace is either dead, or a futuristic planet hoping Dalek fighter (and so therefore probably was killed in the Time War anyway).

That'd be in the comic which clashes with TV continuity all over the shop, and the Virgin books that are pretty dicey thanks to the 'official' BBC books making several attempts to overwrite them, and one of them turning up on the show without the Doctor stopping and thinking "Hello, I've done this before...", yeh?

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:42 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:If we go with the spin offs Ace is either dead, or a futuristic planet hoping Dalek fighter (and so therefore probably was killed in the Time War anyway).

Legitimate viable spin-offs, or franchise milking tie-in-merchandise fiction?

Not that there's a huge difference of course...

Copper was the name of the bloke played by Mr. Bucket in Voyage of the Dammed wasn't it?

Er. Possibly. That would make sense - the entire thing being funded by the not-really-logistically-plausible unlimited credit card.

Well about as much sense as anything else round here.

Doctor probably wanted to save Davros so he could rub his face in the victory or something. Maybe he wanted to run away and start a happy little family with him, or star in an odd-couple style buddy movie.

Of course Davros would have just started the Daleks again, so probably best.

And this year we don't even have to worry about a whole Dalek surviving - just one cell of Davros makes it out of the season alive and we'll have another thousand available for teh futur.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:43 pm

Halfshell wrote: Where was K-9 anyway?

I don't know, but monies on him saving Sarah. I shall complain if they don't do the Daleks/K9 fight Terry Nation would never have permitted.

That'd be in the comic which clashes with TV continuity all over the shop, and the Virgin books that are pretty dicey thanks to the 'official' BBC books making several attempts to overwrite them, and one of them turning up on the show without the Doctor stopping and thinking "Hello, I've done this before...", yeh?

People were treating the books at least as canon up thread, I was just throwing the info out there. Don't believe a word of it meself.

That's because Maggie Thatcher was ****ing terrifying. Harriet Jones wasn't. Maggie Thatcher largely agitated her old party to very little effect. Harriet Jones got somehow involved in a multi-million project to make a space radio. Maggie Thatcher was forced out by her own party. Harriet Jones appeared to have a nervous breakdown. Slight contrast there.

Harriet Jones used a big space gun to blast a giant ship out of the sky, a bit scarier than anything Thatcher did (jokes aside). And as far as I'm aware all the recent PM's (bar Blair) have sat in the House of Lords and so on as well, including a couple who had similar bad times of it.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:50 pm

No, I don't think any recent PM - post-war at the very least - had a public disingegration... Seriously, can you come up with a really good reason why whoever developed the project would want her input and/or help? Wouldn't UNIT and the like have been more than helpful with developing something like that? A barely-detectable way of communicating when under alien subjigation? But then we wouldn't have had that funny bit with the Daleks, would we?

EDIT: Re: The Time Wars... it's odd that the Doctor's initial representation of his role was "I WATCHED EVERYFIN BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURN!" and now it's all "Well, I did try and save everyone out there, isn't my hair lovely?"

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:56 pm

Cliffjumper wrote:No, I don't think any recent PM - post-war at the very least - had a public disingegration... Seriously, can you come up with a really good reason why whoever developed the project would want her input and/or help?

Possibilities: She put the money up (easy for a politician to get a big advance for their book, especially a PM who left office controversially), plus she has insider knowledge of Torchwood (knows all about the spuer weapon before being told in her last appearence) and most likely UNIT as well. Add to that all the various useful contacts a ex PM would have anyway (and I suspect her official reason for resigning wouldn't have been a breakdown tbh I can't see any party basically saying "Yup, we've had a mentally unstable person in charge for a while now").

Wouldn't UNIT and the like have been more than helpful with developing something like that? A barely-detectable way of communicating when under alien subjigation? But then we wouldn't have had that funny bit with the Daleks, would we?

The Daleks had obviously done their homework on both UNIT and Torchwood beforehand (knows where all their bases are and so on). A communication network completely independant of what would likely be the main first targets of any invaders actually makes a degree of sense.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:03 pm

Yes, because the Daleks knew all about Project Indigo and the Plot Device Box and Jack's teleport backpack and stopped them being used, didn't they?

Even if Harriet did put the money up (despite it being the Copper Foundation, not the Jones Foundation), how would this grant her access? If I was to invest in a space programme, would I be able to turn up and say "Right, let's fly this, I may be of questionable character and have no particular skills in the area, but I did fund it"?

And her official reason for resigning would have bugger-all to do with it, TBH. Anyone with that sort of tech and connections would know what really happened.

Not to worry, though, I'm sure we'll get a full and thorough explanation next week rather than having to desperately piece stuff together ourselves.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:06 pm

Why was she holding up her passport (was that her passport?) when saying who she was. Do passports now have a field for "last notable profession"?

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:22 pm

Halfshell wrote:Why was she holding up her passport (was that her passport?) when saying who she was. Do passports now have a field for "last notable profession"?

Because it was REALLY ****ING FUNNY, like it was the last two times. Durr.